On this episode, Faculty Director Katie Richards-Schuster, interviews Christopher Rapisarda; one of the first alumni to graduate in the inaugural class in the minor, and alumni from the U-M MSW program. Chris reflects on his critical consciousness development in the minor, and applications of community action and social change in his role as a practitioner in community agencies.
Speaker 1:
Hi, welcome to PodCASC Stories of Community Action and Social Change in the real world. And if you didn't catch that before. That's PodCASC, as an undergraduate minor here in the school of social work. This is an ongoing series of interviews that feature the diverse stories of CASC alumni who share highs, lows, and other revelations about community action and social change after college. Each interview captures unique stories about some of their earliest memories CASCing, how certain lessons learned carry with them or have been challenged or contradicted over time. Today's interview features Christopher Rapisarda, hosted by Katie Richards-Schuster, CASC founding director, check out his story.
Katie Richards-Schuster:
Excited to have this podcast starting with Christopher Rapisarda. Why don't you start by telling us who you are, your names, pronouns, a little bit about where you're from.
Christopher Rapisarda:
Yeah. Yeah. Great. Thanks so much, Katie. So yes, I'm Christopher Rapisarda. He, him, his pronouns. I'm originally from Emerson, Illinois, first suburb North of Chicago where Northwestern University is. I'm actually having this conversation with you also from Evanston where I am working now. Yeah, I'm trying to think. I was at Michigan many years ago, part of the inaugural CASC class of almost 10 years ago,
Katie Richards-Schuster:
Given that you were part of the first class, do you remember kind of those early days of CASC? Because you started right before the CASC was literally just starting and I think you were part of that very first 305. Do you remember why you were resonating to 305 and some of those early thoughts about it?
Christopher Rapisarda:
Sure, sure. If I remember right before my junior year in the summer, I had a friend who also participated [inaudible] Goodman and she had heard somehow through the Michigan grapevine about this new minor for the school of social work. And both of us were learning a little bit more about this opportunity and I had figured it out very quickly that a lot of what this minor was about was things that I was interested in and passionate about, and also included classes that I had participated in previously. So through sociology I had done, I think it was at the time, so it was 389, like a project community type class. I had also been involved in the Prison Creative Arts Project classes as well as intergroup dialogue. And so there was definitely some threads and commonality there.
Christopher Rapisarda:
And so I didn't really know what to expect with the minor. And it's funny to think back to like I didn't know you at this point either Katie, but I've known you for a long time now, but knew this opportunity. And it seems like very much in the niche that I had made in Ann Arbor at Michigan. I had this friend that was participating in this and some other people who either I knew directly or who I knew of that were drawn to this opportunity. And I think we all kind of found ourselves in this initial class without really expectations of what we were getting into and entering like a building and space that I don't know that any of us had really spent much time in either in my experience many years ago. And Michigan was like, there's this very stark divide between undergrad and grad. Even though a lot of the buildings and classes intersect, I feel like I can visualize being in the school of social work. It was a second floor room.
Katie Richards-Schuster:
Very cramped, being a lot of people in a very tight space because I remember we'd have to navigate our backpacks. And there wasn't enough space for everyone.
Christopher Rapisarda:
But I remember different readings, I think maybe through C tools or printed packets and things that we were reading and learning together. But I don't remember enough about how many people participated in that. But I think I remember graduating with about 27 or 28 of us in that first class and that cohort a celebration on graduation weekend. I remember it was a year and a half later, that May of 2011, and just being so impressed by the people in that room and didn't really know how I fell into it, but grateful to be kind of a part of it and to have that intro experienced, organizing to social work and community through you and others and making that happen. Yeah.
Katie Richards-Schuster:
Yeah. It is fun to think about the connections. And I think when CASC started, some of it was knowing that there were people all around the university who had these commitments to community change to social justice work, but that there hadn't always been a hub for people to come together across programs or projects. And so the idea that even through a course, there could be an opportunity for people to say, "Oh wait, you were in my PCAP program or even finding friends. That you were friends with them and all of a sudden like, "Oh, hey, I didn't know you were also going to be doing this kind of class."
Christopher Rapisarda:
Right. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think I certainly wish in hindsight CASC existed when I was a freshman, because I think I like probably many others, Michigan is such a huge school and took some time to find community within in the school. And there were people that, whether it was just our time on campus together, or even in the year since, that I met through CASC and had such important bonds with. And people that I'm still in touch with today that we either met before or through CASC and that was kind of cemented as well as some of our shared interests around campus, things that we were involved in or issues that we were advocating for from the outside.
Christopher Rapisarda:
But from what little I've heard from you and just seeing from afar, just how much things have ballooned and grown since then and just how exciting it is participating in at the time. I had no idea whether this was going to last or what this minor was going to mean. I feel like recently I had heard from somebody that it was either the largest or second largest minor on campus and just the interdisciplinary nature of it, which I was aware of at the time participating in it, but I'm sure it's just grown tenfold about the many different folks that attracts and brings in. Yeah.
Katie Richards-Schuster:
I'm going to pause for a minute on this and go back to when we're thinking about that you wish that had been there when you were a freshman or first year student. Talk a little bit about who you were in high school. Did you know you wanted to do social justice work when you came to Michigan and how did you think about that transition from who you were as a high school student into coming to the university?
Christopher Rapisarda:
Like I said, I grew up in Evanston, which is a very racially diverse and I would say now looking back, I didn't probably have this lens, but also a very segregated community. And I knew some things about the world and there was a lot that I didn't know. I knew though as a graduating high school student that I wanted to go on to higher education, to college. My dad went to University of Michigan. My mom went to Eastern Michigan. So Southeastern Michigan was very much on my radar and where I was hoping to be, but I had no idea what I wanted to do. I got to Michigan and learned somewhat about some of the different opportunities that were on campus, both in the classroom and outside of it and just fell into certain things and found sociology.
Christopher Rapisarda:
It's a major because I've always just been fascinated and sometimes be wielded by people. And so being able to study that was really exciting. After my freshman year, I came back home to the Chicago area for an internship and then a part-time job, met somebody who had graduated from Michigan many years ago, who told me about what was then the CASC, the AAS program. It's just now DAAS, the Department of Afro American Studies. And so I ended up taking that on as a second major. I should add that I didn't say on the onset, I'm a very, very privileged person from Evanston. I'm very privileged across identities. I'm a White man. And so for me, growing up in that racially diverse, but segregated area, it didn't feel like there was a lot of education around many experiences other than those similar to myself. So I wanted to continue my own learning. And so I got double major in Afro American Studies at Michigan.
Christopher Rapisarda:
And so I was then taking classes in both of those disciplines, which was very, very different, the large sociology classes and very, very small CASC or DAAS classes. But in both of those avenues, I wasn't necessarily finding community or myself in that way. And so I struggled early on in Michigan and had a pretty frank conversation with family and some friends on campus and off campus just about whether or not Michigan was the right school for me. And I think ultimately it was really ... I was just at this juncture in my life that's a challenging time where you're trying to find who you are. And none of that was unique to being at Michigan. That I would have had those feelings elsewhere. And obviously, ultimately was really, really glad to stay at Michigan and all the different things that I was able to participate in, age with, and learn from that I don't know that a lot exists in other places.
Christopher Rapisarda:
And so that's when I really leaned into a lot of the extracurriculars, if you will, that I was involved in outside of class. So alternative spring break and the Prison Creative Arts Project were really two foundational things for me and lots of others that I referenced earlier. And then somewhere along the way, CASC came on the scene. And so there was this minor that really seemed to provide both actual community as well as shared interest of either things I had participated in or wanted to be involved in, and a place to kind of parlay that into like, "What does this mean for us? What does this mean? What does this work look like?" I think really in a lot of ways, CASC is what led me to where I've gone on to professionally.
Katie Richards-Schuster:
Say more about that. How did these opportunities help you to think more about who you wanted to be and how did that translate to your post graduate self?
Christopher Rapisarda:
Yeah, so I had my two majors. I ended up taking on the minor, but early on in college, I had no idea what I was going to do after college. And certainly as I aged and matriculated within Michigan, that became a much more apparent void, especially getting to know people who were pre med or who had these very specific either grad school or directly after undergrad pathways that they had planned that I definitely did not. And CASC provided a space where I could think, and talk, and learn more about just action, and activism, and organizing in a way that I didn't have space for. And it also gave me a vehicle to think about this in a more professional setting, not just to like, "This is what you can do outside of your studies while you're a college student."
Christopher Rapisarda:
It also was my introduction to the school of social work, which is not a place that I would have necessarily thought a lot about earlier in my life or academic career, especially because I like so many others thought social work was very clinical, therapeutic space, which is not something that I have anything against. I'm a big proponent and consumer of therapy, but I didn't think that was who I was going to be professionally. I thought I wanted to be a teacher. I think I've incorporated educator and facilitator elements to who I am, but it's never been my professional practice as a classroom teacher. And so CASC was also this foray long ago when CASC was so small. And I know it's certainly now ... I think it's a pre admit program or there's something more really specific that exists. Right.
Christopher Rapisarda:
But I think we also, in some ways led to that, because if I remember right, there were eight or nine of us in our small cohort of like 28 students that went on to social work schools. Most of them at Michigan. I think a few people went elsewhere. And so that really helps me see that like, "Oh, organizing or management or these macro systems is also a professional avenue and things that you can do with an MSW." Which was what led me to staying at Michigan and staying within that building to turn my MSW. Yeah. With many others who were in my cohort.
Katie Richards-Schuster:
Yeah, you can right after. Right?
Christopher Rapisarda:
Correct. Correct. Yeah.
Katie Richards-Schuster:
So when you think back to your time in undergrad and in CASC, and just the various social justice activities that you were involved in, are there specific moments that you can remember that stick with you?
Christopher Rapisarda:
Absolutely. I think I'll start with CASC maybe. I think a lesson that I remember learning with you and our classmates, maybe in 305, I don't, you could, you could tell me right or wrong, but it was about entering and exiting community. And the intentionality between that, the impact of that, and just being really, really thoughtful about how we just individually and sometimes collectively come in and out of communities. And this has been really, really important for me, partly because of my identity as a White man working in communities where most of the people are usually not White men, thinking about how I show up, how I enter a community, and sometimes how I'm received by that community. But also being mindful of how over time to leave a community in a really, really mindful, careful, and conscious way to not have a detrimental effect, hopefully at all, while I'm there, but just being mindful of that entrance and exiting.
Christopher Rapisarda:
And that's the lesson that is with me always when I'm facilitating a workshop, when I'm starting a new job, or when I'm making a transition professionally. And so I think that dates for me directly back to CASC somewhere along that time.
Katie Richards-Schuster:
Probably the 305 class.
Christopher Rapisarda:
Okay. Okay. Yeah.
Katie Richards-Schuster:
I remember at least a piece of that.
Christopher Rapisarda:
Sure, sure. So that's certainly something. I think a lesson from CASC, but beyond CASC just on Michigan was just the interconnectedness, both of some of the issues and topics, but also of the people, right? One of the things about cask that was special that I see reverberated just in the real world is just how the same people keep showing up sometimes for things, right? The folks that are involved or that maybe were a part of the minor, also the people who are involved and on the ground in so many things on and off campus. And so that's been I think sometimes really, really exciting, but also just raising awareness of the weight of that for people and just how much people are carrying or involved in. I see that on social media now with people who I'm not communicating with regularly, but who I know either from CASC or other avenues on Michigan who are super, super invested in a lot of different issues.
Christopher Rapisarda:
I mean, there's other moments from undergrad that really certainly stick with me. And I remember being in undergrad and the first time voting in 2008. And I remember when at the time Senator, now former, President Barack Obama was elected and just going out on, I think, it was South U, just running out of my house at the time, just with all this emotion and feeling and jubilant, I should say I was really positive. This was the exciting thing for me personally. There were a bunch of people who had like musical instrument and we were just parading around campus. And I don't know what we were saying or singing or dancing, but it was just one of those organic times that you can't orchestrate and that there was ... I'm sure there were obviously a lot of mixed feelings, even in Ann Arbor. I had a roommate who did not want that outcome, but out on the street there was no opposition, there was no negative. There was just positivity and hope.
Katie Richards-Schuster:
I remember that evening because I lived and still live pretty close to downtown and you could hear it. And a few blocks away from the downtown area you could hear on campus, the music and other kinds of things. I think that sense of being part of something bigger is [crosstalk 00:15:35].
Christopher Rapisarda:
And I remember the moment when I left that after several hours and it didn't seem to be dissipating at all. We were also really close to the School of Social Work. I think just in hindsight is [inaudible 00:15:49]. I mean, there's just something about that too, but our trajectory around campus and where I found it and left that was there. There are a lot of lessons as an RGR facilitator where I just had these moments where I was learning a lot as a White person, as a White man, whether it was from a co-facilitator or from a student where I really just had to check myself and think about things and the learning that came through with that. I remember being a PCAP facilitator at the time in a men's facility, men's prison in the state, being in Jackson. We were doing a lesson with our group.
Christopher Rapisarda:
And for anybody who's not familiar with PCAP, though I know so well known on campus, me and my co-facilitator were leading a theater workshop in a men's prison and we organically create a play together, but you do this very often through exercises and storytelling together and just see what comes out of that as a group. So we were doing an activity where we were sharing near death experiences and most, if not, all of the men in the workshop were sharing these experiences of gun violence. As a facilitator, we are still absolute participants in this space. And it got to my turn and I felt so inadequate and inappropriate to be participating in this because for me, the experience that I had and I ultimately ended up sharing was about a time I was swimming with a cousin who almost drowned. So he had an asthma attack. And that just felt so worlds apart from the reality that these men were sharing.
Christopher Rapisarda:
After this disclaimer and voicing some of my discomfort around just this moment and this privilege that I possessed, a man in the workshop whose name is Shaka Senghor and who's leading like a lot of abolition work nationally, if not, even internationally, potentially. And you can look him up, Ted Talk, he's a leader in all of these things. He had said no one can fault you for what you have or haven't experienced. He said it far better and there was a more profound moment than what I'm relaying now. But that is one of many lessons that I've kept in my pocket with me everywhere I go. And I remember for myself, but also for the people that I work with, I work for, and I interact with on a daily basis of how I think about the world and people. So those are a few things that stick out.
Katie Richards-Schuster:
Those are great methods of things that also resonate to stories that other students have talked about over time and in my own experiences. It's cool to hear that you continue to have many of these things present in your mind and I think also powerful to go back and remember these stories as pieces of helping remind you about where some of those nuggets of lessons and takeaways come from. I'm curious in terms of ... so you talk a little bit about how those continue to show up in your current work. Why don't you head jump and tell us a little bit about what you're doing now. You've had various different things post undergrad and in your master's, so maybe kind of talk a little bit about the work you've been you've been doing today.
Christopher Rapisarda:
Yeah. So as I referenced, I stayed at Michigan. I went onto a School of Social Work where I got my master's in the community organizing track specifically with youth and social systems. So I know for me, I had always been drawn to working with young people at times that was as a peer and now it's a little bit more removed from the peer realm and I kind of age in my own development. And so after graduating, initially what I thought I wanted to do and where I can focus my time was doing higher education work, even though I didn't have a higher education degree. I think part of that was because I was a recent college grad. And so that was something that was familiar. Part of that was a desire to be having some of the conversations that I was having in a college setting that I didn't know could exist anywhere else.
Christopher Rapisarda:
And so after a long search and after following a partner, the East coast, I was working at a university there where majority of my job was helping coordinate, recruit, advise a program for students who had experienced extreme poverty, who did not have a higher education degree, but who were interested in earning one. And they could earn a degree at the university at no costs through our very small scholarship program. Eventually they had some program expectations and academic expectations as part of the university that they had to abide by, but that they could earn an associate's degree through the university at no cost. That was a whirlwind experience, especially as a first time job for me as this White privileged guy working with almost exclusively Black and Brown individuals in New York city. And I loved it.
Christopher Rapisarda:
The university did not see the return on their investment as they said in enough of the students graduating through that program, so they ended up cutting that program. And I made a decision to leave in part because I was so devastated that the university was making that decision and couldn't support staying there. And also in part, because my role was going to be so drastically different without this program and without these students. And so then I left there to work at a domestic violence agency where I was doing an education prevention work. So we would go across a county and talk mostly with middle school and high school students about healthy relationships, teen dating violence and consent, but also work with some younger students talking about bullying prevention and some threads tying those two together, but again, working with young people. We had an afterschool group of mostly high schoolers who want to talk about this stuff more on a personal, relational level.
Christopher Rapisarda:
And we would then lead a summer Institute program where students would be talking about isms and oppression on institutional, societal, and in a personal level so that they in part would help create and lead. And so I was in there for a little bit more than a year. And then the same partner who I was with would draw me to the East coast, then finished up her graduate school and got a job back in Chicago. And so then we left and we came back to the Chicago area. And from there I was excited to be back again. I grew up outside the City of Chicago. I never really spent quality time in Chicago and came back there. And for me and something actually I'm talking about it, I think, a lesson dates back to CASC and I don't know how much it was direct teaching or lesson or just something I picked up along the way, but was the importance of doing work in my community where I was from.
Christopher Rapisarda:
And for me, that was especially important being from this privileged community where some folks call it Heavenston playfully as this utopian suburb and having that veil lifted after I left, and went to Ann Arbor, and experienced other things that is not as perfect as I was led to believe. And so wanting to come back and do some work there. And so I was working for probably the largest nonprofit in town when we moved back to the Chicago area, working in Evanston at a K-8 school doing community schools work. I think it was a notion that I didn't know existed until probably with some readings in CASC. And it's a model that I certainly believe in wholeheartedly. And so I was managing our comprehensive programs in this school and pioneering it in a way that it was a new model to this school.
Christopher Rapisarda:
So it was the first year that this was being implemented there. And so we had a community school network of parents, family members, and guardians, will staff and community partners that would meet on a regular basis, about once a month that I would provide dinner for because food helps people show up, not just college students, and childcare as well. And we would talk about our school community and what folks were looking for with this initiative. A lot of skepticism initially, especially with me coming into this school, being assigned to the school. The school did not request this. And me being the person who shows up, this young White guy. And so I had to really, really be intentional about my entering that community, building trust with the leaders in the school.
Katie Richards-Schuster:
What did that look like? Because I think that's something that a lot of students either think about or find themselves engaging with. So what were some of the ways ... food obviously is one potential way, but what were some the other things that you either intentionally thought about or intentional strategies that you used that you think helped you navigate entering?
Christopher Rapisarda:
Yeah, well, so I should say that giving the summary avoids all of the uncomfortable steps along the way, right? So I was pretty explicitly and sometimes indirectly unwelcomed by a lot of folks in the school community initially. And that was a really uncomfortable place to be in for a couple reasons. One is like, "This is my job. So I'm supposed to be here. And I don't know what that means that I'm not wanting to be here." And part of it was also like, "This is my home community." This wasn't a school I had specifically gone to, but it was a school not far from where I'd grown up.
Christopher Rapisarda:
There were a teacher or two in the school who I had had maybe 20 years ago as an elementary school student in the same school district. And also because I thought identity assigns that I had all of this good intention and some training to be here and just goodwill that I thought was really, really important. And that's not to say that those things are completely irrelevant, but to know that I'm entering into a space that existed before I was coming into it and it's going to exist after I leave it and that there's a lot wrapped up in that. Some of it was explaining that this is not something that's being assigned from a deficit model. That we are here because this is such a unique school as a K-8 school in a district that didn't have any other K-8 magnet schools at the time. And that building community and a school that's not a neighborhood school is even more complicated.
Christopher Rapisarda:
And so where I really started, certainly a lot of supervision, a lot of individual time with my supervisor, but also with my principal who I really tried to cement a relationship with, was really just how I showed up in the school. So going to a lot of events, a lot of meetings and the all staff meetings every Thursday afternoon after school. Even though most of the things did not concern me, it was just face time. It was being present. It was building those relationships. And it was showing that I was invested, not just saying I'm here because it's my job. And after slowly starting to that, getting a permanent space in this school that I shared with at the time, our school psychiatrist and our childcare provider, which didn't all work in one room for a variety of reasons with confidentiality and things.
Christopher Rapisarda:
I also did a lot of one-on-ones mostly with family members, also with some of our teachers in the building and other school staff where I just talked to them about who they are, and what the school means to them, and what they want out of the school. And over time, some of those relationships really solidified. And those were the initial people that we met with on a regular basis that became part of our team of folks. And rather than me assigning anything, we collectively created a needs assessment that we then ended up getting a really, really great turnout and response rate from our school community that would not have been possible without. And of the time it took to build from the ground up, but also just the shared commitment, because there were other school staff and family members who would go to events with me that would be there with a survey, or who would email the link to other people they know, or who would be at drop off and pick up for their kids that were talking about it to other families.
Christopher Rapisarda:
And so we ended up hearing from what we think was over like three quarters of the school community and having this really, really wealth of data of what people wanted. And so the highest responses were around more kind of counseling supports for students, but also for families, a desire also for community building, which made sense again, what we knew about this school being a magnet that was not just a neighborhood school. And so that's where we really ... what we prioritize was based on that feedback. And that was something that we shared with the school staff, the administration, but also with our districts, because they were looking at trying to grow this community school model. And this was just a tool of invaluable information that they needed to know too, that like, "This is who your school is. This is where they want to spend time and resources."
Christopher Rapisarda:
And obviously, it's a figment in time, right? This is in theory and needs assessment as an iterative process that you continue to evaluate and fine tune. So that was our first year in the school. And then unfortunately that summer we were funded through the United Way and some of their priorities shifted and our organization also shifted. And so we ended up actually phasing out the community school model the following school year. So this is only the second year that we are in this school after this really first year of doing a lot of foundational work, having this information from the needs assessment in theory, jumping off point, to then come back in the fall and say, "We're actually ending this because the nonprofit that I work for and represent doesn't want to continue it." That was a really just emotional, emotional process.
Christopher Rapisarda:
And trying to be mindful of how I was exiting that community. But it was really tragic, I feel like it's the word I would use for it. And it's not I had to look for another job, boohoo. That was not the end of the world, but the fact that this community that was skeptical had then bought into this process and then was invested in it to then all be taken away in a six, 12 month span of time was really problematic. With that ending I then kind of ended up where I am now. So still working in the same town now at the high school district. And that was an intentional choice by me wanting to still work in my home community and also work in an area that was close enough to that school I had been in previously so that I could see some of the same families. That as students aged and graduated from that K-8 school, they are now in this school.
Christopher Rapisarda:
And so I see them from time to time or I have them in some of the focus groups that I facilitate. So I'm a qualitative researcher here. We have a research department, which is a very rare and privileged thing in a high school level, especially we're a single school district. And so we have a process and a project that we're leading where we are doing a curriculum review led by our administration where we're going department by department and probably for the first time holistically and comprehensively looking at curriculum and ways to make some changes. And so we're basing that in part on quantitative data. So of course tracking patterns rather than other things of that sort, and also the qualitative data, so the student experience. So that's the majority of what I do is focus groups with students where we're talking about student experience in the classroom with the teacher, with their peers, senses of belonging and their motivation, and also their sense of representation, and whether or not they feel their identity and identities are affirmed in the classroom, if they feel visible and seen. And then also some core specific questions.
Christopher Rapisarda:
So when we worked with the math department, they wanted us to ask them questions about the rigor of their classes, homework and homework help, other things of that sort. Whereas with the history department, we spend a lot more time talking about identity and about the content they were learning, the ability to have a conversation or discussion with somebody who has a different point of view than you, other things of that sort. And so I should say that all of what we are asking and doing is tailored after working with that specific department of teachers and them guiding what things they're most interested in us asking. And that's also informed by the dean that we work with and who's leading this process who has his own ideas about it. And so that's what I'm doing currently.
Katie Richards-Schuster:
So I have to ask you quick about the K-8 school. Do you know what happened? Did they continue to do community work or what was the outcome of the fact that your process had [inaudible 00:32:18]?
Christopher Rapisarda:
Yeah, so our nonprofit decided to end that program, I would say. They did not handle that well, that abrupt decision and they did not communicate it well. And so that really affected the relationship between that nonprofit and the school. Because I wasn't a district employee, I was an employee technically of this nonprofit that was funded in the community school model, the district wanted to take on the work, but in a reduced way. Because for them, I think the way they articulated it and how I understood it was they have, let's say, 15 schools within their district. If they're just doing this community school work at one, what message does that communicate to the other schools? What does it communicate to the one school that they're in? And their capacity for doing this work was very different. They were taking it on more as an intermediate solution because it had been phased out, not as a necessarily longterm sustainable approach.
Christopher Rapisarda:
So after rethinking the model a bit and some time off and to hire someone, they reopened the start of the last school year. So that was probably about six months after I had left and our work had been cut, but they had someone who continued in the school that I was in, but who was also assigned to two other schools. So she was in three schools at once, which on the one hand is really great to try to have this model in multiple spaces. On the other hand, and what my reservations were ahead of time, is because this work is so relational, trying to build that depth and commitment at three different places as one person was going to be a challenge.
Christopher Rapisarda:
And so I talk with her every now, that community school manager now, and she is mostly focused on a different school where they've just started. Partly because there's not the ill will that had begun when I was at that other school and then that was ended. But also because I think some of the needs identified there are more pressing, is just feeling more urgent to be there. So some of it continues. Some of the programs were taken on by some folks in the building. And so like the grocery meal program that we had begun, I think some of the mental health staff, as well as some of the organized parents are organizing groups of parents, have tried to continue, but it looks different. It's not quite the same.
Katie Richards-Schuster:
On a personal note on that, something that people in any kind of field, but certainly in community work and social justice work and for many of the students, will face these moments where their transition or where the larger structure changes their mind in this. So you talked about how devastating that can be when you've invested time and also frustration. How did you personally kind of cope with it? Or how do you translate that to continue to be optimistic about something new?
Christopher Rapisarda:
Yeah, it's easier said than done. I'll certainly say that at the front. So there were two other community school managers at different schools, one in a different school district. And so we had a lot of commiserating that we did with that. And before the decision was finalized, we definitely did a lot of mobilizing and organizing as a team within our nonprofit, but also trying to galvanize some of the folks in our schools too to petition for a different outcome or to pursue other streams of funding. So it was not an easy thing to let go of. And I think there's a part of me, especially with some of the feelings around my current position, that still are ... there's just a void that hasn't been filled from that. And I'm still certainly very unsettled with how it all ended.
Christopher Rapisarda:
So all of those emotions and things are real and a part of my process then, and still lingering obviously now. However, the other thing that was important to keep in mind was that the work continues and there are people still there, right? And so for me especially as this White man in this very diverse school, it was not overthinking who I was or the impact that I made, not to say that I didn't have any positive impact or influence because I don't think that's necessarily accurate, but I do not want to inflate myself. But I also know that there were parents who were pushing a variety of agendas before I got there and who were some of the movers and shakers after I left and some of my close allies while I was in the building. There was specifically a cohort of staff, but even on the whole staff that are really, really trying to do good work and a lot of other community partners who were not leading the school in the way that I had had to because of my position.
Christopher Rapisarda:
And there are still students there who need services within the classroom and beyond the classroom, and that wasn't going to change. And so I think something that I've had to learn along my journey, especially being in a couple positions that have ended because of funding, was that the need doesn't just end because you're not there, but the energy, the folks who are doing that work, and the potential and passion from all of them also doesn't leave just because you're not there. And so knowing that and be able to hold both of those things at the same time because in some ways that's really helpful and comforting for me is knowing that I'm not there doing this, leaving this initiative that I thought was really, really important, and I think a lot of folks would have said, valuable to them and to their students. But there are also still a lot of other things happening, people leading, organizing, and advocating, and that didn't change just because I'm not there.
Christopher Rapisarda:
And in some ways it gave folks an opportunity to get involved and invested in another way. And so I think knowing that how much of this work is collaborative, that I don't think there's been anything I've done in my career that I've done alone. And that I say with pride because I think it's so important that it's not something that is done unilaterally, universally, and independently. I think it's so instrumental, and important, and necessary for these things to be done together in community. Sometimes it's slower, it's most likely always more difficult and challenging, but it's also more sustainable, more rewarding, and there are leaders everywhere. It's not just somebody who found a job and fell into it, that was licensed to do something in a school or any other community. That there are people that are leading and doing that work already, or that if given the opportunity, will do that work. But I think those are some of the lessons in the ways that I've tried to process that along the way.
Katie Richards-Schuster:
And kind of wrapping up this incredible conversation, when you think back to who you were coming at the early days of Michigan or early days of CASC and you think about who you are now, what would you tell that person? What would you want that person to be thinking about or knowing?
Christopher Rapisarda:
I mean, I think in some ways I, like probably many of us, was ready to begin and ready to grow up and just to move on to the next thing. And so I think definitely telling myself to slow down and not to be in a rush is a really, really important thing, both individually, personally, developmentally, but also in doing the work I have become a much more process than product person. And so being able to do the walking in between, enjoy it, and savor it, and struggle in it, and sit with it as you go is really, really essential and not to be too worried about what that outcome is going to be because it's going to come at some point in time. So I think that's certainly something I would tell or caution myself. I think even though I wouldn't want to hear it, but I would have told myself 10ish years ago, was that I'm not necessarily gonna have anything more figured out in 10 years than I do at this point in time or that I did then. That there was a lot of learning and growing that I'm still doing.
Christopher Rapisarda:
I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do when I grow up, because I think there is just so much out there, in there. In some ways, the more into the work you get, it can be natural to become disillusioned by things or just discouraged. But as I said with how I left my last job, but also knowing that, and this certainly rings true to CASC, that the more in that space that I am, the more people I realize that are a part of it too, and in the different ways that they can be, right? So some people, that is their profession. For some people, it is just their soul of who they are. Right? And in other folks, they give the time that they have and how invaluable that is as well. But knowing that the work continues and then I continue in the work, but also I am not the work.
Christopher Rapisarda:
There are so many folks near and far that are engaged and involved in leading and following that I'm grateful to be along in that where I can be, and try to be mindful of doing that in a way that is not an impediment, is not tokenizing or as a White savior or trying to be involved in. Also, I think I would tell myself to look inward and to do the work within my community and how that's a lot of where my focus is now is. For instance, trying to do work with White people, and how challenging that can be, and how I wish I had had started with that lens earlier on, but there is always going to be work to do as far as that's concerned.
Christopher Rapisarda:
So those are a few somewhat hopeful and somewhat constructive pieces of feedback I think I would give myself. And just to remember the people in the room, because both back to that CASC example of who I was graduating with, who we kind of celebrated with, I think that morning brunch on graduation weekend, but also the people that are always in the room and sometimes the people who are absent from the room. That there's just so many people.
Katie Richards-Schuster:
Yeah. It's powerful. And I think we always talk about the ... with CASC and with any kind of work, it's about the people and it's about building relationships and taking time on multiple fronts. So with that, so many incredible nuggets that you've shared here and so many different, different thoughts, but having been part of CASC from day one. I mean, literally first class before the minor was even a thing, we ran that class and you were in it. And so much of being part of creating the foundations. And I think what you talked about with your work in the school is in some ways also the ways that you contributed to CASC and that CASC continues, but the nuggets and the pieces and momentum that you helped to get started that's now evolved and twisted and turned in its own ways. But that part of you is in the foundation of where this work has gone. So for that, I'm truly grateful.
Christopher Rapisarda:
Yeah. Thank you Katie. I know how much the minor has evolved and been shaped by students in it. And I think that's really, really special and certainly, it was great to be there at the beginning, but it's also been great to hear, to see, and to learn about where it is now and how much it's molded to the needs and the knowledge in the room. Yeah.
Katie Richards-Schuster:
Awesome. Well, thank you again for this incredible time with us. And I look forward to continuing the conversation. I'm sure that there'll be others who want to reach out and talk to you as well.
Christopher Rapisarda:
Yeah, absolutely. That's encouraged. I'm always, always available. One-on-ones, whether in person or by email or the phone, I think are some of the best ways I spend my time. So that'd be great.
Katie Richards-Schuster:
All right. Well, we'll formally conclude the podcast at this point and thank for your time.
Christopher Rapisarda:
Thank you, Kate.
Speaker 1:
Thanks for listening everyone and check us out next week for the next alumni interview. We'll be on Apple podcast and also Spotify.